Xebat Andok: Free life is next phase of Kurdish struggle

In the second part of an interview conducted by ANHA Agency with Xebat Andok, he addressed questions related to the “Peace and Democratic Society” initiative, underscoring the importance of establishing communes in NE Syria, Kurdistan, and the broader Middle East.

 Below is the full text of the interview:

On February 27, the leader Abdullah Ocalan issued a historic statement. Within this framework, the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK) held its 12th conference on May 5 and 7. On July 9, a video of leader Abdullah Ocalan was released for the first time in 27 years, and on July 12, the Peace and Democratic Society Group destroyed some weapons. How would you describe this process from February 27 to July 12?

 We define this process as the “Peace and Democratic Society” initiative. As is widely known, the 20th century was marked by the struggle against genocidal policies targeting the Kurdish people. The past 52 years have been dedicated to the fight for the Kurdish people and Kurdistan, with immense sacrifices, particularly under the leadership of leader Abdullah Ocalan and the PKK.

This process builds on a 52-year struggle that has yielded significant results. The aim is to leverage these achievements and transition the struggle to a new phase with different methods. What does this mean? This struggle has resolved the existential crisis facing the Kurdish people. Those who posed this existential threat were undoubtedly the hegemonic powers, the forces of global capitalist modernity. Through this process, the PKK became a movement to secure the existence of the Kurdish people, asserting and gaining recognition for their existence against occupying and dominant forces. This can be considered the first phase of our struggle—establishing our existence.

The second phase is about building a free life. This responsibility lies with us, as freedom cannot be expected from hegemonic powers, nor can anyone else construct a free and democratic life rooted in equality. This is a core component of a democratic society. The call of leader Abdullah Ocalan encompasses two parts: peace and the democratic society. The peace component involves developing certain matters in collaboration with the state, while the democratic society component defines the phase we are now entering, which is fundamentally about building a democratic society.

There is no doubt that the Middle East is experiencing the effects of a Third World War, driven by the forces of global capital. The peoples of the Middle East are suffering greatly, with hundreds killed daily in the name of religion, sectarianism, nationalism, and patriarchal domination. The Middle East is under ideological and political attack through various means. Through this initiative, leader Abdullah Ocalan seeks to guide the peoples of the Middle East toward solutions for social, national, religious, and other issues, not only the Kurdish question. In this way, he aims to offer the peoples of the Middle East a program and a vision, guiding them toward a path of greater democracy, freedom, equality, and independence from hegemonic powers. This is a key part of the initiative, directing the peoples of the Middle East toward the right path.

On one hand, this initiative signals a new phase in the Kurdish people’s struggle, inviting us all to participate in this process. On the other hand, one of the parties involved is the Turkish state, as this process was initiated following a call by [Bahçeli]. There is no doubt that they were alarmed by certain developments. The events unfolding in the Middle East within the context of the Third World War clearly pose an existential threat to them. If they fail to resolve their internal issues, the hegemonic powers of capitalist modernity could intervene and partition states. They have recognized this danger, with clear examples in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, and Syria. They have made these calculations to avoid such outcomes, acknowledging that for a century, they attempted to eradicate, assimilate, or integrate the Kurdish people but failed. The PKK neither destroyed them nor was destroyed by them. They approached the situation in this manner, creating an opportunity—at the very least, the opportunity for leader Ocalan’s call and the release of the video. Leader Abdullah Ocalan initiated this process, and they found it suitable for their interests. This process is ongoing.

Some view this process as a threat. Does it pose any threat to the countries of the region? 

This process poses no threat to the peoples of the region, as the Kurdish people are not a hegemonic force, nor do they commit crimes against other peoples. Since its inception, our Apoist movement has served the Kurdish people, the peoples of the region, and humanity as a whole, sacrificing itself in the struggle for democracy, freedom, and equality. This is the essence of our program and ideology. From the outset, our movement has been internationalist, humanist, and feminist. Therefore, the peoples of the region should harbor no doubts about this process. It is essential for them to understand that this initiative, manifesting in Turkey and northern Kurdistan, is not limited to these areas. It is a regional and global process aimed at democratizing the Middle East. The achievements of this process will benefit humanity as a whole, women, and democratic social forces. Writers, intellectuals, women, youth, and democratic forces take the model of leader Abdullah Ocalan as their foundation. The only threat is to the interests of certain states.

Naturally, hegemonic powers with their own agendas are unlikely to support the development of this process, as they thrive on fostering conflict in the Middle East, pitting peoples, religions, and states against one another. This is their method of manipulating the region while tying it to their influence, enabling their intervention. Their aim is not democracy or freedom but the creation of crises and conflicts from which they profit and which they exploit for their own interests. While the peoples suffer, states are also harmed. When examining the Kurdish issue, it becomes clear that hegemonic powers created this problem a century ago to justify their subsequent interventions.

You spoke about building a free society, with the democratic commune as its seed or foundation. How do you define the construction of a democratic commune?

Certain terms have been distorted by various ideologies and misrepresented. When we raise this issue, it may seem like a new discovery, but it is not. For example, what is a commune? It derives from two words, one meaning "community," which is the most fitting term to describe the Kurds. It stems from the concept of a "group." Life, at its core, is collective. Everything is collective—even the sentences we speak are a collection of different words linked together to form meaning. Science tells us that everything is made of atoms, containing electrons, protons, and neutrons—a group. Nature, too, consists of diverse, complementary elements—a group. The human body is also a collection of parts.

Thus, reality is inherently collective. In society, there are women, youth, men, children, and different peoples. God created nature as diverse, and diversity is the language of existence. Relying on anything other than diversity is a departure from reality and truth. Therefore, we say the seed of life is the commune.

What does "democratic" mean in this context? When people come together in a commune, democracy emerges naturally and authentically. What is democracy? It is the absence of oppressors and oppressed, of masters and slaves. It is the embodiment of value and self-governance. Beyond the state-centric notion of democracy, true democracy allows for the expression of all that is beautiful.

For instance, a commune is formed when Kurds and Arabs live together freely, when men and women—distinct entities—build an equal life in their own way, or when harmony exists between children and the elderly, or between different religions. The key principle is the rejection of domination and enslavement. It is about individuals refusing to see themselves as either slaves or masters but instead as agents of solutions, where everyone expresses themselves, participates, discusses, makes decisions, and implements those decisions. On this basis, the democratic commune can be described as the essence of a free and equal life.

"The relationship between women and men is the foundation of society"

Can it be said that the democratic commune has a foundation in Kurdistan and the Middle East?

As long as life exists, the foundation for the commune exists. It is true that under the influence of power, significant harm has been done within the framework of the state and male-dominated systems, leading to widespread domination and enslavement.

However, even if the commune as a seed has been weakened, it undeniably persists. The existence of power, whether after the rise of the state or before under different guises, does not mean that all of life has become authoritarian. That is not the case, nor is it the truth. If it were, what would we be doing here with our lives? We are not claiming to create a perfect commune, but we are determined to show everyone what a commune is and how it functions.

Within our movement, we live the reality of the commune. For example, there are women and men, none of whom are dominant or oppressed, and everyone participates in building their daily lives with their own strength, style, and character. The resistance our movement has waged for years, achieving these victories and successes, is rooted in this principle. The commune persists in tribes, clans, and societies in various forms, albeit to a limited extent. What needs to be developed is the elimination of power within these structures. People must overcome domination and enslavement. What is the foundation of this? The relationship between men and women. If the relationship between men and women is not rectified, a commune cannot exist. If men do not abandon their domineering masculinity and become equals with women, they automatically become obstacles to the commune.

 Therefore, forming a commune requires men to relinquish their patriarchal mindset. Equally, women must reject submission and humiliation, as they are not weak—these are lies propagated by dominant men. Women must participate in free life according to their strength, essence, nature, and history, becoming constructive forces. When men cooperate with women, and women take on leadership and pioneering roles, the commune forms and thrives in a better environment.

There is currently a democratic system based on communes in NE  Syria. Do you have any information about the communes there, and what is your opinion on them?

 Our lives are also collective and participatory, but as an organization, we operate in the Media Defense Zones. In brief, what is the form of the commune in society? What are its outcomes, and how is it built? In reality, everyone is asking this question about Rojava, and we, too, are posing this question to Rojava. Our focus is on Rojava because it is the practical testing ground for this model. Broadly speaking, within the context of the Third World War, where resistance is being waged against the brutality of ISIS, Jabhat al-Nusra, surrounding occupying forces, and even attacking powers, a democratic commune exists. Even if one knows little about Rojava, the results speak for themselves. Additionally, there is a significant level of women’s leadership, and this struggle is boundless. There are no limits to freedom, equality, justice, or a beautiful life. Therefore, describing what has been achieved in Rojava, Kurdistan, as merely a "victory" is too small a term. There is something greater than victory. It is essential to strive for a completely free life.

From what we observe, there is organization, and I believe there are many communes. However, we lack detailed knowledge about their shortcomings or successes. They take the model of leader Abdullah Ocalan as their foundation, and they have succeeded by following this model. As long as they adhere to this model, they must remain committed to it. To assess one’s level of democracy, strong training is required. This cannot be achieved without training, as we have all been shaped—whether by traditional society, occupation, authoritarian regimes, or the system of capitalist modernity—into a specific mold. To create something new, different training is necessary. Every commune must reflect on this: to what extent am I outside the current system in terms of mentality and consciousness? This is a prerequisite, and we call it an academy. Every few days should be treated as an academy. This academy involves critiquing one another based on the standards of freedom and engaging in each other’s lives. How open are they to this?

Every commune is, in essence, a council. As in a council, everyone speaks the same language, with no language dominating another. The most valid language is the one that is useful. Thus, people unite in thought, discuss, exchange diverse ideas, make decisions, and implement them. A commune should not wait for someone else to solve its problems. It exists to address the issues of its members, discuss societal matters, make decisions, and resolve problems independently. This is what a commune is. Individuals within it should embody this spirit as well. We describe such individuals as free, and we describe such a commune as a democratic commune. A free life rooted in equality is achieved in this way.

 a.k

ANHA