​​​​​​​Ocalan lawyer: Everyone must show their democratic response to isolation

 Lawyer Ibrahim Bilmez explained that the isolation must be lifted, and said: "Turkey must end these security policies as soon as possible, open the door to dialogue again and start the dialogue with Mr. Ocalan again so that Turkey can get out from These crises.

Ibrahim Bilmez said that European Council of Ministers Committee did not provide them with any information about the decisions it took regarding Turkey, adding that it should remove Turkey from the Council if these decisions were not implemented and did not abandon its policies towards Ocalan.

Lawyer Ibrahim Bilmez, spoke about the severe isolation imposed on leader Ocalan, and the decisions of European Council of Ministers Committee, and the most prominent activities of 2022 seeking to lift the isolation.

* 22 years and there still absolute isolation is imposed in Imrali. In your statement, you revealed that you have not received any news about leader Abdullah Ocalan, since 2015. How can this be analyzed?

This policy is not acceptable on the legal, moral, religious or humanitarian level, so there must be an objection to it. We used to present Guantanamo prison as an example of the injustice against the detainees there, but even the detainees inside Guantanamo were able to meet with their lawyers. The situation in Imrali has gone so far that you can't have any information about your client. Turkey is a member of European Council and in its constitution it is considered a state of law and has many provisions on human rights. It is also a signatory to European Human Rights Treaty and has accepted all the rights it provides. This treaty includes the right to live, equality and many other human rights. Despite all this, a person can't visit this prison in Turkey. The last information we received was in March 2021, from some news, that was communicated with Mr. Ocalan by a phone call, which was cut off before the conversation was completed. We don't know why the connection was cut off. Mr. Ocalan said during the short call "I do not accept this injustice and I want to speak with my lawyer." Since then we have intensified our efforts, every week we made a request to meet him, and we still continue to do it. When it comes to Imrali and Mr. Ocalan in Turkey, everything remains as it is and not implemented.

Bursa court said that on October 12, a decision was taken to ban the leader from meeting his lawyers for six months, and on last August 18 prevent the leader from meeting his family for 3 months as well. However, they didn't provide the lawyers with any clarification about these prohibitions. While it is not known what is the legal aspect of these practices and why are lawyers not specifically informed about it?

To be able to answer these questions, we must first meet our clients. This is the biggest problem we can't meet them or communicate with them. If we meet with them, we can ask them what happened and why they sentenced him to penal punishment. But we can't even ask about that. We insist on agreeing to meet with him. Even in response to our requests they don't tell us that they imposed a penalty on him. We know it months later in a different way, but it was too late. We object to the Public Prosecution, and when the refusal is made, we go to the criminal court, and when the refusal is made there too, we also go to Constitutional Court. This continues for years as we refer it to European Court of Human Rights. Legal action continues, and they don't want it and are trying to stop it. This is also why they hide it from lawyers. We know that Mr. Ocalan has abandoned the appeal since the past and that our other clients in Imrali have also given up, they also know that it will not achieve any result. It is possible that they are doing so as a protest.

In the past, they used to make excuses for obstructing the meetings, like the ship was not working, that the weather was not suitable, Do they still make these excuses?

In fact, they no longer make those excuses. In 2011, a major operation was carried out against Mr. Ocalan lawyers, dozens of lawyers were arrested. The largest operation against lawyers took place in Turkey. This was done at that time by Fathallah Golen group and AKP government. Until July 27, they were either saying that the ship was not working, or that the weather was not good, and or the captain of the ship is sick. The government lied every week, that is why we could meet together only once every two months. However, after July 27 the negotiations were stopped. After the last meeting, in November, it launched a big operation against the lawyers. The political operations were carried out under the name "Kurdistan Community Organization Operations" and almost everyone was considered terrorists, prisons were filled. Following July 15 coup attempt, the government on July 16 made Bursa Execution Court issue its first decision.

They told us that the court took the decision and that it was forbidden to meet with lawyers, but this doesn't exist in Turkish law. And to cover this up, they enacted a law and made it a legal matter, but just because it's legal doesn't mean it's really legal. they do not act according to legal requirements, there are some conditions. If he is required to meet his lawyers, he must first hold a meeting before that, in that meeting you will commit an illegal crime, this crime will be recorded by the state ideology and this record will be sent to the court and the court is the one that judges, in Imrali even this has not been applied. In 2019, the hunger strikes reached the point where 4 meetings with lawyers were allowed and that after years. The ban was also terminated. The Ministry of Justice also came out and said, "There is no such law." But they continued the ban after a while without taking any prior decision regarding it.

Why the negotiations were terminated?

This depends entirely on Turkish Republic perspective and its government towards the Kurdish issue. When there were no wars and security policies against the Kurdish issue, the isolation imposed on Imrali would ease a little and the people would relax. But it is no longer the case. It is clear that the state and the government found after a while that this would not benefit them, so they ended the political process. after that, severe isolation was implemented in Imrali.

This isolation, which is imposed on Imrali, is fundamentally treacherous, because Mr. Ocalan played his role in all stages. He also showed how much he desires to solve the Kurdish issue by peaceful and democratic means and that he is able to achieve this. Mr. Ocalan is the one who did this work, but an unjustified isolation was imposed on him.

Following the meeting of European Court of Human Rights held between November30 and December2, Leader Ocalan's "Right of Hope" was put on the schedule of work. After that, Turkish media intervened and published many propagandas to prevent Leader Ocalan from taking advantage of this right. What is the right to hope and what is its relationship to the penal punishment?

Severe life sentences did not exist in Turkey. When Mr. Ocalan was brought to Turkey in 1999 and he was tried, the death sentence prevailed. Even the people who were sentenced to death in Turkey, including political detainees, spent a maximum of 20 years in prison and there are thousands of examples of this.

And it was forced to lift the death penalty so that Turkey would not be convicted in European Court of Human Rights and relieve European pressure. There is no doubt that the will of Kurdish people affected this as well, and when the death sentence was abolished, they sentenced him to life imprisonment. This provision did not exist until then. This sentence means that you arrest someone for their crimes and put them in prison and tell them, "This is your coffin." They created this provision for Mr. Ocalan, but it applies to thousands of people.

Because it was enacted as a provision within the framework of law, it is bound to be within the general principle to which everyone is subject, it is no longer just a problem for Mr. Ocalan, it is a big problem in Turkey. Whoever receives the sentence in prison, the time limit in which they will be released (the release date document) will be sent. For those who have been life sentenced with, this document is written to them: "You will not be able to leave until you die." This is not ethical at all; it is also considered torture according to European Court of Human Rights. If you make such a sentence, then you are opposing Article 3 of European Court of Human Rights. This is what European Court of Human Rights says about our case regarding Mr. Abdullah Ocalan. In 2014, Turkey condemned and said, "By imposing this punishment, you are violating our Article 3. This punishment is illegal, abolish it. Establish a mechanism through which people sentenced to this punishment can return to society after a specified period, and this is what we say about the "right of hope"." The detainee should know that there will be a day when he will be released and that he is not inside the coffin. Turkish state has not taken any action since 2014, It has not even taken a single step. The number of people sentenced to this punishment is increasing day by day. There are 3 other files in addition to the file of Mr. Ocalan sent to Committee of Ministers. The government has presented an action plan on what to do about life sentences, however, these action plans were useless. It did not have any tangible embodiment in the reality. That is why the problem has reached to our present day without a solution. Recently, civil organizations in Turkey have taken some steps because life sentences have become of interest to thousands of people. They also reviewed the Council of Ministers. And based on the requests, the Council of Ministers held a meeting that lasted 3 days, Turkey was given until September to draft a law.

Did the government review you after this meeting and any progress is being made?

No, no, no. Unfortunately, no progress has been made. Turkey needs to present a plan of action. You have to put a road map in front of it. The Committee of Ministers must have before it the date on which the new law will be brought before Parliament when it makes a legal change. But it didn't. During our reviews on previous occasions, they twice gave us a road map, but it didn't contain anything positive. That's why there's no progress now. We're waiting.

What will happen if Turkey does not take any steps regarding the decision of the European Court of Human Rights on time?

It is a shame on the international scene for a member State of the European Council to put itself in this position. It does not apply its laws or the terms of the treaty of the European Court of Human Rights, which it signed itself. But if Turkey does not respond to these demands and does not meet them, the final stage of this is to get it out of the European Council. These are historic and difficult consequences for Turkey. That means Turkey's complete break with the European system. It means redirecting Turkey to the east, Asia and Eurasia again and seeking new alliances. There is no doubt that this has important consequences for domestic politics, peace and meeting in Turkey. Everything's changing. Turkey cannot afford it. The demands of the European Court of Human Rights must therefore be responded to and implemented as soon as possible.

You mentioned earlier that detainees during the Covid 19 epidemic are entitled to a 10-minute phone call every week. However, leader Abdullah Ocalan and his comrades did not receive this right in any way. After 21 years of arrest, he was able to use the phone once because of the situation imposed by the epidemic. There are serious concerns about his health status. What do you want to say about these concerns?

Unfortunately, there's nothing. We're very worried about this. Mr. Ocalan suffers from many chronic diseases and we have seen them in Imrali Prison. There were very difficult problems in his eyes. And he had to shut them down. And because he cleaned them so much, they were hurt. He also had respiratory problems. And the weather in Imrali is so bad for such diseases. Given all the facts and considering Mr. Ocalan's age, we are very afraid. All this, together with tight isolation, reinforces our fears. We are applying for Mr. Ocalan's health and information. But we're not getting any response to our requests. That is why, no matter what we say, talk remains incomplete and inadequate. Barring talking on the phone is another aspect of isolation. There's nothing wrong with a life sentence talking on the phone and continuing to communicate. But this method of communication doesn't take place within Imrali Prison. Mr. Ocalan was able to speak to his family once at the beginning of the pandemic. Last March, a call was made because of the news in the media, but it was cut and not completed. We do everything we can as lawyers in this regard. But there's no law in Imrali Prison.

The people regard leader Ocalan as their "Leader." What is the impact of the ongoing severe isolation on political and social developments? If Leader Abdullah Ocalan was met and shared his views with world public opinion, how would that affect the current situation?

The answer to your question is clear. Turkey is very divided. People in Turkey have no legal guarantee. The principle of the rule of law in Turkey is ink on paper only. There are no human rights and the economy is about to collapse. And people are pessimistic. We're facing a very bad painting and there's absolute isolation in Imrali Prison. These two apply in parallel. If there's isolation in Imrali Prison, it means no solution. If we look back five or six years ago, there was an operation going on. Even if he was honest or not, even if it was just on paper, there were discussions with Mr. Ocalan. The negotiations had been launched. Look at that day and look at this day too. Unfortunately, the approach taken with Mr. Ocalan and the Kurdish cause is affecting the future of all peoples in Turkey. When security policies are in place, everything gets worse. In exchange for this, when an attempt is made to reach a solution and negotiate with Mr. Ocalan, a completely different painting appears.   

You also said Turkey was on the verge of collapse but insisted that it was not resolved. Why do you keep blocking the solution?

There can be many reasons for this; The government believes that the solution will not work for it. Elections following the dissolution process were important. If the president of State truly loves his country, he will be able to risk sacrificing his authority if necessary to do so to solve the fundamental problems in his country. There are examples. I hope that politicians in Turkey will take advantage of these good examples, draw lessons from them and open the way to resolving the Kurdish issue on a just and democratic basis. Because the unresolved Kurdish issue might keep you at the helm of power, but it's dragging the country into the abyss. He could be a political motive.

Claustrophobia may be another reason for that. But if the Kurdish people win or succeed, the Turkish state's reaction is to stand against it. I'm saying that about developments in Rojava. The fact that the Kurds founded a democratic building in Rojava means a revival of fragmentation in the nation's genes; They're facing the end of the solution process. The solution process could have been done so that these gains would not have been realized. The military operations were then carried out in Rojava. But if you find another way. Rojava's Democratic Autonomous Administration could be a victory for Turkey. Unfortunately, these policies have lost Turkey and its people. Turkey must end these security policies as soon as possible. The dialogue must be reopened and the dialogue with Mr. Ocalan should begin again. This problem must be solved sooner or later. The sooner Turkey works this out, the less price it will pay. Mr. Ocalan is a lucky opportunity for the people. And there's no one else who's been creating concrete projects and thinking about them for 24 hours like him. Turkey must not miss this opportunity.   

In the four parts of Kurdistan and in Turkey, Europe and Africa, actions are being launched against isolation and to demand the physical freedom of leader Abdullah Ocalan. Especially in the last 2021 social media campaigns have increased sharply. What do you think of these campaigns?

I think these campaigns are very important, Because the law has a certain consequence. We can hardly reap any result. Mr. Ocalan said that "the Kurdish issue is mine and mine is a political issue." So this is resolved through a political struggle. These campaigns have pioneer role to play. Mr. Ocalan's physical freedom and the service of peace must be achieved by expanding these campaigns.  

What must be done during 2022 to achieve the physical freedom of Leader Abdullah Ocalan?

I trust that the Kurdish people enjoy a great deal of sympathy. And whoever hasn't done it yet has to do it now. They should put themselves where Mr. Ocalan and our three other clients are. When they took Mr. Ocalan to Imrali, some fascists said, "Why did you pardon Ocalan, why not execute him?" The then Secretary-General of the National Security Council, Tuncer Kiliç, said about this, "If we execute Ocalan, he will be tortured for only half a minute and then freed. We'll bury him in a coffin to suffer there for years, and die. " And Imrali Prison is really what he said, only Mr. Ocalan was in Imrali until 2009. Mr. Ocalan sought to breathe and live within 11 square meters without hearing anyone around him. It was the sense of responsibility that kept him alive. That's 22 years ago. Mr. Ocalan's age and health problems are very clear. So I have to think about it. He takes it into account, abandons the character of isolation and looks at it as normal. Everyone must take as democratic a stance as they can.

T/S-Sh-S

ANHA